This topic has been rattling around in my brain for years, as I've been in a similar spot as you. You brought it to light so beautifully, alongside your personal experience and perspective. My favorite line: "They’re both worshipping the same thing: certainty."
Kandis 🫶🏼 It’s so nice to know we aren’t alone in the in-between, isn’t it? Yes, that idea of worshipping certainty wasn’t something that was clear to me until recently when I had a confronting experience at a new church. I didn’t understand what about it made me feel uncomfortable, and then it all sort of clicked. I’m glad that is something that resonates with you, too. I hope you can find the spiritual home you’re looking for. 💛
Thanks so much for sharing. I love your perspective here. There are so many beautiful things that come from attending services and finding a spiritual community. I myself started attending friends meetings (quaker meetings) this year, and, oddly, it’s helped me to remember all the things I once loved about Mormonism. It’s a joy to sing hymns, to break bread with strangers, and to find like-minded folks (or different-minded folks lol). I’m so glad leaving Mormonism doesn’t have to equal losing all of that. I love that you are breaking binary thinking and finding a path that is completely your own. Keep sharing your journey. It’s a gift to all of us who navigate that messy ball of belief and belonging. ❤️
Kylie!! Thank you for your beautiful thoughts. 🥺 I love to hear that you’ve rediscovered things you loved about Mormonism in the friends meetings. It can be vulnerable to be in that space again after some time away. I especially loved this in what you said: “it’s a joy to sing hymns, to break bread with strangers” - something so simple but truly not found in many other places outside of a church setting. I’m glad you have had a good experience. You’re the best!!
I’m going to be bingeing all your posts. Love your perspectives here!! Growing up in a black and white framework (at least in my home and church experience) can make deconstructing feel like it needs to be that way too. I love how you say you deconstructed certainty—that’s it!!! I definitely had a very intense deconstruction where everything came crashing down, but as I’m rebuilding I’m slowly adding things back in that I thought I had to abandon. For example, prayer. Turns out I like praying. We all just gotta figure out what speaks to our souls and it definitely takes time and a lot of inner work. But the journey can be so beautiful and rewarding!!
Thanks Kimber! I find so much peace in your words. I hope I’m gradually coming to realize I can love my faith community and utterly oppose the many certainties and binaries. I recognized and appreciated that tangled ball of everything 😉. And I love your ways you care for your soul. And after running into so many instances of “listen” lately, I think I’ve found my word for 2025.
Haha, yes, a “tangled ball of everything” feels right. I love that you choose a word of the year - I do that too! I love that the word “listen” has been popping up for you lately. Would love to know what the result on focusing on listening would have for you… seems powerful. 🥰
My husband kind of mocks me for my word of the year, so it’s nice to know you find value in that too 😁. When I picked “attune” for this year, I wasn’t sure where it would take me. I think I was hoping to calm some of the chaos of questions that are inherent in a faith journey. Turns out it has not been tuning myself to fit any one of the myriad voices out there, but instead discovering that some voices make my soul come alive—they resonate and are already a part of me, and now I’m more aware and know myself better. I’m hoping to turn outward this year and connect more deeply with people, so that is how I see “listen” fitting in right now. But who knows where it will lead!
I love that! I feel similarly about my word for this year, “radiant” — I discovered more things about where radiance comes from and the pain/darkness that often comes before the light! Definitely not what I expected! But for me, that’s the beauty of choosing a word of the year!
I love this, well written Kimber! My husband and I both grew up Mormon but have since left. I want the community and all the good that comes with some of the friendships/connections in the church for my kiddos. I also don’t want to trade one of the same things for the next. An ongoing journey for us all I guess!
I completely understand how you feel! It can be hard to want to provide that spiritual community for yourself and your family but not know exactly what place you can trust. It takes time and patience and a little (lot) bit of bravery. 💛 As you said, an ongoing journey!
Hi Kimber, have enjoyed reading your posts from time to time, and appreciate the gentleness and introspection you’ve had in your journey.
I’ll share a few of my thoughts on this topic, as requested, and agreed it’s not often discussed! Sorry in advance if it becomes a novel, tho I do embrace my inclination to yap. Background is left the church in 2014 after a couple years of inactivity/internal reservations. Deconstruction came very quickly and resolved into agnostic atheism, and since have embraced an absurdist/ethical hedonist approach to life.
The thing that kept me wary of any organized religions after I left was a desire to avoid anything claiming divine or supernatural knowledge plus an expectation of conformity. It’s really rare to find a religion that doesn’t embrace both of those elements to some degree, though obviously there’s a continuum of harm here in what that looks like. Religions that are more neutral or universalist tend to just fade over time anyway. I have found a useful an accurate framing of religions, in a sociological sense, to be akin to an organism in a competitive environment. Evolutionarily speaking, successful organisms know how to reproduce and fend off competitors. A religion that, for example, encourages lots of children and only reproducing with in-group members is going to be a lot more prevalent than one that doesn’t, and I think that is shown in the major religions. Really gentle, ecumenical and loving religions tend to die out to ones that are more dogmatic, as dogma creates stronger in-group identities.
It might sound very clinical and devoid of the spiritual elements, but to me it’s like spirituality are organic and natural human experiences, manifestations of our human existence and sapience. We search for meaning because we are self aware and there aren’t self evident answers to such meaning in a naturalistic universe. We find patterns cause our brain is realllyyy good at it (and it was key to our development as a species). And so religions are like different adapters, or schemata even, that allow us to structure that natural tension and make sense of all these jumbled emotions. It gives us some answers, but at the cost of our questions. Most of them don’t really want us to keep questioning, which I find to be the soul of humanity.
So the absurdist in me prefers to say, there is no “answer” or external meaning to any of this except for what we make of it. I truly believe we are evolved from basic life in a cool pocket of the universe, incredibly rare but probably not the only ones that have or will exist. I believe the universe is beautiful and wild and completely unaware of our existence, and so I look at my existence and say we ought to make the best of it. As a species that evolved with social imperatives, we ought to be pro social! So that means deep community and family and love and romance and connection. As a sapient and inquisitive species, we should seek knowledge, share, connect and grow. As a pro social species, we should nurture those bonds and treat others with the respect we also crave, and since we’re self aware that means we can act in manners greater than a basic programming around scarcity would expect, and so on.
And I think it’s lovely if people can find those things through religion, as long as those religions aren’t perpetuating harm or misinformation in the process. But ultimately, religion isn’t needed for any of that in my mind. Ethics and philosophy are substantive and filling to me. Secular answers to any questions have filled me, and the arts and music and liberation and community sustain my “soul”. And I think a challenge we face in 2024 is that for many centuries, religions have created a perceived monopoly on community. Like some say about the church co-opting sexuality and selling it back to us, i think many churches do the same thing with community or personal growth. But there are beautiful and amazing secular communities out there that do it in spades, but without the dogma. I have found my greatest comfort in queer spaces, for example.
So with allll of that in mind, it really does all come down to whether or not we think there is a deity out there, or a supernatural element that has guided our species. I’m inclined to say no, as I don’t see any direct evidence. And if there is, then i think such a being won’t mind me acting as ethically as I desire to already, and certainly doesn’t need my worship or praise. And as it is impossible to perceive or prove, it’s impossible to disprove, so I have landed on the side of acting as though there isn’t. As so in that regard, I don’t think I would ever find as much satisfaction in an environment that claims some level of those “answers” that isn’t empirical.
I don’t know if any of that is interesting or helpful but that’s where I’ve landed. I think we all have different levels of desire for trying to make “sense” of our existence, and so we all seek out different types of answers.
But for me, when I look at the stars and feel my smallness, or sit there and marvel at my very being, the gut flora and bacteria that help make up my very consciousness, when I think of just how grand it is that we are all riding a brief and beautiful wave of energy and entropy from the big bang until know, self organizing structure out of chaos before a long and dark life of the universe, I’m filled with awe and gratitude that I get to experience that for however brief my existence will be. I don’t think I existed before and I don’t think I’ll exist after, so I’m enjoying the now and doing my best to make that ride on this wave more enjoyable for others. And if a religion does that for you or anyone else? Groovy ♥️
Alex, all I can say is — wow! I can feel your heart so clearly in your writing. It’s obvious you have done a lot of introspection and deep learning and research. 💛 You have interesting perspectives and good points made about dogmatic religions vs gentle, ecumenical religions. I will have to mull on that for a while. I love your last paragraph describing looking up at the stars and feeling your smallness and honoring the gut flora that makes up your consciousness. I, too, have found awe in thinking of our brief existence.
Thank you for being here, for being brave in writing out and sharing your thoughts, and for reading my musings about my evolving faith. I appreciate you. (Also, you should start a Substack publication! You have some great things to say!)
This topic has been rattling around in my brain for years, as I've been in a similar spot as you. You brought it to light so beautifully, alongside your personal experience and perspective. My favorite line: "They’re both worshipping the same thing: certainty."
Kandis 🫶🏼 It’s so nice to know we aren’t alone in the in-between, isn’t it? Yes, that idea of worshipping certainty wasn’t something that was clear to me until recently when I had a confronting experience at a new church. I didn’t understand what about it made me feel uncomfortable, and then it all sort of clicked. I’m glad that is something that resonates with you, too. I hope you can find the spiritual home you’re looking for. 💛
Thanks so much for sharing. I love your perspective here. There are so many beautiful things that come from attending services and finding a spiritual community. I myself started attending friends meetings (quaker meetings) this year, and, oddly, it’s helped me to remember all the things I once loved about Mormonism. It’s a joy to sing hymns, to break bread with strangers, and to find like-minded folks (or different-minded folks lol). I’m so glad leaving Mormonism doesn’t have to equal losing all of that. I love that you are breaking binary thinking and finding a path that is completely your own. Keep sharing your journey. It’s a gift to all of us who navigate that messy ball of belief and belonging. ❤️
Kylie!! Thank you for your beautiful thoughts. 🥺 I love to hear that you’ve rediscovered things you loved about Mormonism in the friends meetings. It can be vulnerable to be in that space again after some time away. I especially loved this in what you said: “it’s a joy to sing hymns, to break bread with strangers” - something so simple but truly not found in many other places outside of a church setting. I’m glad you have had a good experience. You’re the best!!
I’m going to be bingeing all your posts. Love your perspectives here!! Growing up in a black and white framework (at least in my home and church experience) can make deconstructing feel like it needs to be that way too. I love how you say you deconstructed certainty—that’s it!!! I definitely had a very intense deconstruction where everything came crashing down, but as I’m rebuilding I’m slowly adding things back in that I thought I had to abandon. For example, prayer. Turns out I like praying. We all just gotta figure out what speaks to our souls and it definitely takes time and a lot of inner work. But the journey can be so beautiful and rewarding!!
Thanks Kimber! I find so much peace in your words. I hope I’m gradually coming to realize I can love my faith community and utterly oppose the many certainties and binaries. I recognized and appreciated that tangled ball of everything 😉. And I love your ways you care for your soul. And after running into so many instances of “listen” lately, I think I’ve found my word for 2025.
Haha, yes, a “tangled ball of everything” feels right. I love that you choose a word of the year - I do that too! I love that the word “listen” has been popping up for you lately. Would love to know what the result on focusing on listening would have for you… seems powerful. 🥰
My husband kind of mocks me for my word of the year, so it’s nice to know you find value in that too 😁. When I picked “attune” for this year, I wasn’t sure where it would take me. I think I was hoping to calm some of the chaos of questions that are inherent in a faith journey. Turns out it has not been tuning myself to fit any one of the myriad voices out there, but instead discovering that some voices make my soul come alive—they resonate and are already a part of me, and now I’m more aware and know myself better. I’m hoping to turn outward this year and connect more deeply with people, so that is how I see “listen” fitting in right now. But who knows where it will lead!
I love that! I feel similarly about my word for this year, “radiant” — I discovered more things about where radiance comes from and the pain/darkness that often comes before the light! Definitely not what I expected! But for me, that’s the beauty of choosing a word of the year!
I love this, well written Kimber! My husband and I both grew up Mormon but have since left. I want the community and all the good that comes with some of the friendships/connections in the church for my kiddos. I also don’t want to trade one of the same things for the next. An ongoing journey for us all I guess!
I completely understand how you feel! It can be hard to want to provide that spiritual community for yourself and your family but not know exactly what place you can trust. It takes time and patience and a little (lot) bit of bravery. 💛 As you said, an ongoing journey!
Hi Kimber, have enjoyed reading your posts from time to time, and appreciate the gentleness and introspection you’ve had in your journey.
I’ll share a few of my thoughts on this topic, as requested, and agreed it’s not often discussed! Sorry in advance if it becomes a novel, tho I do embrace my inclination to yap. Background is left the church in 2014 after a couple years of inactivity/internal reservations. Deconstruction came very quickly and resolved into agnostic atheism, and since have embraced an absurdist/ethical hedonist approach to life.
The thing that kept me wary of any organized religions after I left was a desire to avoid anything claiming divine or supernatural knowledge plus an expectation of conformity. It’s really rare to find a religion that doesn’t embrace both of those elements to some degree, though obviously there’s a continuum of harm here in what that looks like. Religions that are more neutral or universalist tend to just fade over time anyway. I have found a useful an accurate framing of religions, in a sociological sense, to be akin to an organism in a competitive environment. Evolutionarily speaking, successful organisms know how to reproduce and fend off competitors. A religion that, for example, encourages lots of children and only reproducing with in-group members is going to be a lot more prevalent than one that doesn’t, and I think that is shown in the major religions. Really gentle, ecumenical and loving religions tend to die out to ones that are more dogmatic, as dogma creates stronger in-group identities.
It might sound very clinical and devoid of the spiritual elements, but to me it’s like spirituality are organic and natural human experiences, manifestations of our human existence and sapience. We search for meaning because we are self aware and there aren’t self evident answers to such meaning in a naturalistic universe. We find patterns cause our brain is realllyyy good at it (and it was key to our development as a species). And so religions are like different adapters, or schemata even, that allow us to structure that natural tension and make sense of all these jumbled emotions. It gives us some answers, but at the cost of our questions. Most of them don’t really want us to keep questioning, which I find to be the soul of humanity.
So the absurdist in me prefers to say, there is no “answer” or external meaning to any of this except for what we make of it. I truly believe we are evolved from basic life in a cool pocket of the universe, incredibly rare but probably not the only ones that have or will exist. I believe the universe is beautiful and wild and completely unaware of our existence, and so I look at my existence and say we ought to make the best of it. As a species that evolved with social imperatives, we ought to be pro social! So that means deep community and family and love and romance and connection. As a sapient and inquisitive species, we should seek knowledge, share, connect and grow. As a pro social species, we should nurture those bonds and treat others with the respect we also crave, and since we’re self aware that means we can act in manners greater than a basic programming around scarcity would expect, and so on.
And I think it’s lovely if people can find those things through religion, as long as those religions aren’t perpetuating harm or misinformation in the process. But ultimately, religion isn’t needed for any of that in my mind. Ethics and philosophy are substantive and filling to me. Secular answers to any questions have filled me, and the arts and music and liberation and community sustain my “soul”. And I think a challenge we face in 2024 is that for many centuries, religions have created a perceived monopoly on community. Like some say about the church co-opting sexuality and selling it back to us, i think many churches do the same thing with community or personal growth. But there are beautiful and amazing secular communities out there that do it in spades, but without the dogma. I have found my greatest comfort in queer spaces, for example.
So with allll of that in mind, it really does all come down to whether or not we think there is a deity out there, or a supernatural element that has guided our species. I’m inclined to say no, as I don’t see any direct evidence. And if there is, then i think such a being won’t mind me acting as ethically as I desire to already, and certainly doesn’t need my worship or praise. And as it is impossible to perceive or prove, it’s impossible to disprove, so I have landed on the side of acting as though there isn’t. As so in that regard, I don’t think I would ever find as much satisfaction in an environment that claims some level of those “answers” that isn’t empirical.
I don’t know if any of that is interesting or helpful but that’s where I’ve landed. I think we all have different levels of desire for trying to make “sense” of our existence, and so we all seek out different types of answers.
But for me, when I look at the stars and feel my smallness, or sit there and marvel at my very being, the gut flora and bacteria that help make up my very consciousness, when I think of just how grand it is that we are all riding a brief and beautiful wave of energy and entropy from the big bang until know, self organizing structure out of chaos before a long and dark life of the universe, I’m filled with awe and gratitude that I get to experience that for however brief my existence will be. I don’t think I existed before and I don’t think I’ll exist after, so I’m enjoying the now and doing my best to make that ride on this wave more enjoyable for others. And if a religion does that for you or anyone else? Groovy ♥️
Alex, all I can say is — wow! I can feel your heart so clearly in your writing. It’s obvious you have done a lot of introspection and deep learning and research. 💛 You have interesting perspectives and good points made about dogmatic religions vs gentle, ecumenical religions. I will have to mull on that for a while. I love your last paragraph describing looking up at the stars and feeling your smallness and honoring the gut flora that makes up your consciousness. I, too, have found awe in thinking of our brief existence.
Thank you for being here, for being brave in writing out and sharing your thoughts, and for reading my musings about my evolving faith. I appreciate you. (Also, you should start a Substack publication! You have some great things to say!)
Wow! So well-said and insightful. I admire you so much 🤍
Megan! Thank you so much for reading.
Love this so much
Love YOU so much!